What Is This Christ-Insanity...?

[Mantash]

I dunno if its been answered or not but the "Sons of God" were the Angels or watchers who were put over the earth. They changed form to human and had kids with the "daughters of man" which were the giants, eg Goliath of Gad and his brothers. They showed man several secrets and how to make weapons etc. and the earth began to be filled with violence.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Sons of God

# Genesis 6:2 (Whole Chapter)
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

# Genesis 6:4 (Whole Chapter)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown..

Mantash, have you thought deeply about who the son's of God or the angels in the Bible could really be?

# Job 1:6 (Whole Chapter)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them...

Lets leave Job out of this as it brings confusion. Most scholars say its mere poetry. I mean Satan went to heaven and had a discusion with God . Come on now.

Q'lypse who were they?
Why should I leave Job out of it? b'cos someone thinks its poetry, I don't subscribe to their beliefs

Why don't you back up what you say with sources or something?

[Q' lypse]

Q'lypse who were they?
Why should I leave Job out of it? b'cos someone thinks its poetry, I don't subscribe to their beliefs

Why don't you back up what you say with sources or something?

All I'm saying is try looking at UFO cases and the watchers wouldn't seem like white men with bird feathers but beings from other planets or dimensions.

The whole Job thing makes the Bible look weird and leaves others with doubts. Do you really wanna believe Satan went to heaven to greet God?

[Mantash]

Q'lypse who were they?
Why should I leave Job out of it? b'cos someone thinks its poetry, I don't subscribe to their beliefs

Why don't you back up what you say with sources or something?

All I'm saying is try looking at UFO cases and the watchers wouldn't seem like white men with bird feathers but beings from other planets or dimensions.

The whole Job thing makes the Bible look weird and leaves others with doubts. Do you really wanna believe Satan went to heaven to greet God?

You still haven't backed anything you said up.
Now where did I state that watchers were "white men with bird feathers" ?
Angels are beings from other dimensions ie the Spiritual world.
As far as the book of Job, the fact that you think its weird doesn't mean a thing.
Read the book of Enoch, you can find it online, just google it

[Q' lypse]

You still haven't backed anything you said up. .

I'm just asking a few questions. Its not a debate.

Now where did I state that watchers were "white men with bird feathers" ?.

I did not say, you said that. Relax man. Isn't that the images we see around? Thats all I'm saying.

Angels are beings from other dimensions ie the Spiritual world.

Ok. Thats ok.

As far as the book of Job, the fact that you think its weird doesn't mean a thing.

So I asked you. Do you really believe satan went to heaven to say good morning to God?

[Mantash]

Hey Q'lypse

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

That what I believe what do you believe ? what do you stand for? I see you asking all these questions etc but do you believe?

[Q' lypse]

What I believe is a nice tale broadcasted by the somebody who was eavesdropping in heaven. Wherever the writer was when he/she witnessed this drama might have been in the clouds. Seriously though, what I believe is God and Satan working together in this text to make some man's life a living hell just to see how much he can endure.

[Kwame Atuapuma]

What I believe is a nice tale broadcasted by the somebody who was ease dropping in heaven. Wherever the writer was when he/she witnessed this drama might have been in the clouds. Seriously though, what I believe is God and Satan working together in this text to make some man's life a living hell just to see how much he can endure.

Why should God test man?l have often wondered about this.God is all knowing and all wise.God knows everyone.
lf this is the case,then there is no need for God to test any person.
l believe however that God has made it such that life gives us opportunity to test ourselves.

[Quansah]

Christ-insanity like all the modern religions, is a crimes organization founded on fraud, violence and racism.

[Kwame Nyame 64]

Christ-insanity like all the modern religions, is a crimes organization founded on fraud, violence and racism.

Thats the was you see it Quansah; and l am sure like everyone else,you are entitled to your opinions.
Many ,many people,and great men and women who has contributed to world civilization and human advancement have used the principles found in their religion to lead fruitful and fulfilling lives.Many happen to be Christians.

[Quansah]

Christ-insanity like all the modern religions, is a crimes organization founded on fraud, violence and racism.

Thats the was you see it Quansah; and l am sure like everyone else,you are entitled to your opinions.
Many ,many people,and great men and women who has contributed to world civilization and human advancement have used the principles found in their religion to lead fruitful and fulfilling lives.Many happen to be Christians.

So what exactly are you saying, Knyame64? That having some followers of that faith lead productive and fulfilling lives exempt it from being a crimes organization? No knyame64, it does not work that way. The ends doesn't justify the means as you seem to imply. The question you need to ask yourself is, how did these people become followers of the christian faith... wasn't it through the many inquisitions and crusades? Now, how did that come about?

People were worshipping Maa Ndona miscalled the Black Madonna as the image of the universe long before the christian era. But with Julius Ceaser proclaiming the new world order in 46BC, all effort was directing at replacing the symbols of the old world order with these organizations to mark the kaukazian era.

[Kwame Nyame 64]

Christian Crimes against Humanity


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
– Luke 19.27 *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"All sects of heretics are condemned and various punishments are appointed for them and their accomplices."
--Pope Alexander IV (1254-61)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Catholic extermination camps
Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children! In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian Serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis had victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdienst der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did
nothing to prevent them. [MV]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Catholic terror in Vietnam
In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters; the Viet Minh; - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-Buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]
Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism. The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:

"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of Buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of Buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - ; mostly in street riots ; - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].
To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rwanda Massacres
In 1994 in the small African country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.
For quite some time I heard only rumors about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.
Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.
According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.
In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the
Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on
fire and burn their victims alive..." [S2]

More recently the BBC aired:

Priests get death sentence for Rwandan genocide
BBC NEWS April 19, 1998

A court in Rwanda has sentenced two Roman Catholic priests to death for their role in the genocide of 1994, in which up to a million Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed. Pope John Paul said the priests must be made to account for their actions. Different sections of the Rwandan church have been widely accused of playing an active role in the genocide of 1994...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



A Large dated compilation of Christian Crimes since its advent:

As soon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by imperial edict (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.

Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.

Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]

Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]

Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."

In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.

In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]

The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]

Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]

Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]

15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Number of victims unknown. [DO30]

16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]

Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]

9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then Turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]

Until January 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]

After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women and children) killed.
[WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]

Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude."

The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]

Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]

Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]

Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]

Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]

Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]

Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]

Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
The Albigensians (Cathars) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (the greatest single mass murderer prior to the Nazi era) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Number of victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic
neighbors and friends) estimated between 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]

Subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]

After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324.
[WW183]

Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone), [WW183]

Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).

Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada, a former Dominican friar, allegedly was responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]

John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]

Michael Sattler, leader of a baptist community, was burned at the stake in Rottenburg, Germany, May 20, 1527. Several days later his wife and other follwers were also executed. [KM]

University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]


Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.

Thomas Aikenhead, a twenty-year-old scottish student of Edinburgh University, was hanged for atheism and blasphemy.

From the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.

In the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.
[WV]

15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]

1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]

1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. [DO31]
Between 5000 and 6000 Protestants were drowned by Spanish Catholic Troops, "a disaster the burghers of Emden first realized when several thousand broad-brimmed Dutch hats floated by." [SH216]

1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]

17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]

17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]

17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians.Number of Jews slain unknown.

In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]

694 17. Council of Toledo: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]

1010 The Bishop of Limoges (France) had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]

1096 First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]

1147 Second Crusade: Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]

1189/90 Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked. [DO40]

1235, Fulda/Germany: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]

1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]

1290 Bohemia (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]

1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]

1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]

1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]

1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]

1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all Jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.

1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492.
[MM470-476]

1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.
[DO43]

Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.

Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion." [SH200]
While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it." [SH204-205]

On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:

"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]


Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]

In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]

On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]

The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and Spanish raids.
As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]

The Indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]

What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]

The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]

"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]

Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other Spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).

"When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead."
[SH95]

Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]

In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).
"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: 'Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow Englishmen: "This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no
choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia" methods were different: "when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community" down. [SH105]

On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War." The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.

When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.
Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.
The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: "And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies": men, women, children. [SH113-114]

So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].

Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:
"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them..." (Deut 20)

Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents". [SH114]

Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by Spanish methods of the time)
In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]

The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]

Other tribes were to follow the same path.

Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"
"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]

Like today, lying was morally acceptable to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]

In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]

In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]

To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about
30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.

All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.

A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.

In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.

Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do bears'." [SH241]

Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to be wading in gore" had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
From an eye-witness account: "There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]

By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'."
[SH244]

Below are some christian forms of torture that were actually used for hundreds of years:


Breaking on the Wheel.

The naked heretic had each limb and joint broken precisely to avoid any fatal blows. He was then 'braided' into the spokes of the wheel and hoisted on to a post. There he was exposed to the elements – or left to be twirled by passers by who wanted to join in the fun."


"The Pope's Pears:

The vaginal pear was used on woman who had sex with the Devil or his familiars. The rectal pear was used on passive male homosexuals and the oral pear was used on heretical preachers or lay persons found guilty of unorthodox practices. Inserted into the mouth, anus or vagina of the victim, the pear was expanded by use of the screw until the insides are ripped, stretched and mutilated, almost always causing death. The pointed ends of the 'leaves' were good for ripping the throat, intestines or cervix open. "


"The Judas Cradle:

The victim is raised up by the rope or chain and then lowered until the vagina, anus or the coccyx rests on the point. The torturer could vary the pressure by hanging weights from the victim or rocking or raising and dropping the victim from various heights."


"Iron Spider:

The iron would usually be heated to red-hot and then used to slowly rip the breasts from the body. It would be used for such crimes as heresy, adultery, self-induced abortions, blasphemy and other "hideous" crimes


"Strappado:

Designed to dislocate the shoulders of a victim by hoisting him off the ground, allowing him to fall, and stopping him suddenly before he touched the ground. To add to the torment, weights (varying from 50 to 500 pounds) were tied to the victim's body to dislocate a greater number of bones."

"Cat's Paw

A clawed rake, used to rip the person's flesh and tear the flesh from the bones of any part of his or her body.


"Slow Burn

A 16th century device to lift the victim in and out of the fire, roasting him alive slowly instead of burning him all at once. "



"The Holy Trinity:

When a sinner had "blasphemed the holy name of god", or when he had perhaps told some truth about the local priest, it was customary to apply the holy trinity. The Iron mask was heated in an open fire until red hot, then put upon his head. The scourge, also red hot, was then applied to his back. After the mask had cooled, it was removed from the sinner, taking skin (and usually eyeballs) with it. The prisoner's mouth was then opened and red hot pincers were used to remove the prisoner's tongue.
It is interesting to note that the Holy Trinity was designed not to cause death, so that the maimed, blinded and mute prisoner could live out his days as a burden to his family and as a testimony to what happens when one lets his tongue wag too freely."

SOURCE: www.captaincynic.com


This is the bad side of Christians.l will be coming up with good side of Christians later.
There is a corrupted version where people use religion for crimes against humanity.Then there is the good side where people used religion for the good of humanity.
More later.

[Kwame Nyame 64]

lSIAM'S CONTRIBUTION TO HUMANITY.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIsaiyRtPHI

[Quansah]

Hello Knyame64, I want to thank you for your contribution to this discussion. I know many of you have been wondering as to where I am leading the discussion to... the answer to that is very simple. Peace and harmony in all of nature depends on every being living and praying the creator in accordance with its own nature. A cat lives and prays as a cat and not as a dog, horse, or whatever. The same is true for an atom, planet, sun and people. So as Ebonite or Ebane people (now miscalled black), I believe it is time to stop living in denial and live and pray as our nature demands.

I know it has become a cliche to view the the god of abraham as his religions as the only way to God. In Genesis 1:27, we are told that God made man in his image... now, what does it mean to become an image of God? A careful consideration of this fact reveals that man is not just endowed with soul, but has faculties of sensitivity, memory and foresight. Essential qualities lacking in the god of abraham in whom the modern religions are rooted.

Why do I say this? Well according to the bible story, abraham comes to canaan as an immigrant. And this god promises to give to abraham and his seed the land which is not his to begin with. And by way of getting abraham to sacrifice isaac, planted in him and his descendants the notion that the killing of the innocent is righteous. But that is not the way of the Creator.

It is true that these religions have had their way with us by way of violence over the course of their existence. This became possible because of mixing and other factors that limited our options, but those factors do not apply any more. So for the peace of the world, I believe it is time to return to our ancestral faith.

[Kwame Nyame 64]

Hello Knyame64, I want to thank you for your contribution to this discussion. I know many of you have been wondering as to where I am leading the discussion to... the answer to that is very simple. Peace and harmony in all of nature depends on every being living and praying the creator in accordance with its own nature. A cat lives and prays as a cat and not as a dog, horse, or whatever. The same is true for an atom, planet, sun and people. So as Ebonite or Ebane people (now miscalled black), I believe it is time to stop living in denial and live and pray as our nature demands.

I know it has become a cliche to view the the god of abraham as his religions as the only way to God. In Genesis 1:27, we are told that God made man in his image... now, what does it mean to become an image of God? A careful consideration of this fact reveals that man is not just endowed with soul, but has faculties of sensitivity, memory and foresight. Essential qualities lacking in the god of abraham in whom the modern religions are rooted.

Why do I say this? Well according to the bible story, abraham comes to canaan as an immigrant. And this god promises to give to abraham and his seed the land which is not his to begin with. And by way of getting abraham to sacrifice isaac, planted in him and his descendants the notion that the killing of the innocent is righteous. But that is not the way of the Creator.

It is true that these religions have had their way with us by way of violence over the course of their existence. This became possible because of mixing and other factors that limited our options, but those factors do not apply any more. So for the peace of the world, I believe it is time to return to our ancestral faith.

Hi Quansah,
Thank you too for not making your reply a long one (just teasing)

l have some questions for you.But before that,let me say,you can put across your case,faith or viewpoint without name calling and ridiculing other's faith.
l believe rubbishing another's faith hints at the degree of sanctity in your own chosen faith.
Anyone who loves God sincerely wld allow others to love God too.
Some will say they are stating "FACTS" and not abusing.
There's a method l use to overcome this.Before l post or say anything here on the forum,l ask myself 3 questions.
IS IT TRUE?
IS IT NECESSARY?
IS IT KIND?

lf l find what l am about to put out conflicts with any of this three questions,l abandon what l say.
l must admit l don't get it right most of the time.But l try very hard.
This attitude stem from part of an advice given by my teacher.
He explains that every thought,word or deed will either purify or pollute the body.
Enough of the preaching.
Now to my questions.
1.Do you believe that there is but one God?
2.Do you believe that this one God is all powerful,all wise and all presence?
3.Do you believe in reincarnation?
4.Do you believe that man is more than flesh,emotion and mind?
And lastly 5.Do you believe in Karma?

l don't know how you are going to answer these.l mean we can go at it one by one or take it all in one hit.

Please,please please.Lets keep it reasonable short.l am very slow mentally and can't tackle very long post.
l look forward to continuing this discussion.We can take this behind close doors and look at it more closely.lts entirely up to you bro.
ln your own time,in your own time.l am not in a hurry.

[Quansah]

Surely Knyame64, you must know that a doze of truth never killed anyone. Besides, even beliefs have to be verified at some point to determine their validity. So as rational beings, I don’t think subjecting our beliefs to critical analysis from time to time is anything to be excited about.

Now about your question, I can only say that karma is a function of the world of duality. In the Oneness, there is no such thing as good or evil; since all life is about responsibility. As Ebonite or Ebane people, we have been on earth since time immemorial and are responsible for life on this planet.

In fact according to the Ankhufurha, it was Haussa and his wife HauSeti (miscalled Osiris and Isis) that succeeded in the first creation experimentation in 392,992 BCE. Problem is our ancestors brought some reprobates from another world to our reform school long before the creation.

These reprobates couldn't get along with their own people as we are told, and our ancestors offered them a chance at rehabilitating. Those found to be sufficiently rehabilitated were to be returned to their own world. As a condition for being hosted on this planet, they were not supposed to intermingle with the life here.

Unfortunately some of those sent back had a problem readjusting to their new life of freeness, so the arrangement for their continued presence was amended to give those sufficiently rehabilitated conditional release before being sent back to their native planet. And as we were the only people on this planet at the time, this arrangement worked well for millions of years.

The emergence of the newly created people brought in a new dynamic that the reprobates took advantage of in sticking it to their host. As the Ankhufurha tells us, some of those on conditional release got away in a prison riot and had children with the created people contrary to the terms of their being hosted here. And the maiden people chose to keep this relation private, since they considered it to be their own family business.

This fact along with the mistakes we made in the creation process and its aftermath, eventually led to our downfall. But now we have served our time… the restrictions imposed on us as a result of those mistakes have been lifted. So it is time now to wake up from our deep sleep and assume our responsibilities as life demands of us.

[Kwame Nyame 64]

l asked you 5 questions
Now to my questions.
1.Do you believe that there is but one God?
2.Do you believe that this one God is all powerful,all wise and all presence?
3.Do you believe in reincarnation?
4.Do you believe that man is more than flesh,emotion and mind?
And lastly 5.Do you believe in Karma?

l could pick up your answer about KARMA when you wrote,
Quansah wrote,
Now about your question, I can only say that karma is a function of the world of duality. In the Oneness, there is no such thing as good or evil; since all life is about responsibility. As Ebonite or Ebane people, we have been on earth since time immemorial and are responsible for life on this planet.

Yes,l agree with you that the law of karma only operates in the worlds of duality.The worlds of duality are the physical,astral,causal,mental and top of the mental,etheric.
These worlds form the negative pole of reality.lt is where nothing can exist without its opposite.Good cannot exist without bad.;mountain cannot exist without valley .
There is no karma or good and bad in the pure spiritual worlds which forms the positive world of creation.
l believe you described this worlds as "IN THE ONENESS" Correct me if l am missing the point.

Then it all gets grey from here.You lost me on this Ebonite subject.
Who are Ebonites.?What sets them apart from other forms of creation?
ls it just skin colour?Do they reincarnate?

l will be back tonight with more questions.Hold on please

[Kwame Nyame 64]

So Quansah,can you tell me a bit about your concept of God;your understanding of the nature of Soul or man.
and can you explain how your views of the above relates to our universe and todays realities.
l look forward to hearing from you.l am not in a rush.ln your own time bro.
Kwame Nyame

[Quansah]

Hello knyame64, I can understand your surprise and shock at the way I responded to your question. I am sure you must have asked yourself several times before, why our rights as a people are neither recognized nor respected. Why do you think we are called black and classified by the color of our skin, when nature doesn't know any color lines? Now since your question about karma was vague, I had no choice but to tailor my answer to our peculiar situation.

Even though the world today calls us black, we are ebonite or the ebane people. You may consider that to be just names, but it is not. Those who insist on classifying us by the color of our skin have a hidden agenda, and it is up to us to fight it and reclaim our true Self and rightful place in the world. Because as Sorel, the father of communism and fascism quotes Clemenceau in his Reflections On Violence, and I quote:

"there is no better means, 'he said' than the perpetual concessions for making the opposite party ask for more. Every man or every power, whose action consists solely in surrender, can only finish in self-annihiliation. Everything that lives resists; that which does not resist allows itself to be cut up piecemeal."


While it is true that karma or fate is the bond between all existing things, it is also equally true that that alone is not enough to explain our predicament. The question then comes down to whether or not you are brave enough to stand up to the challenge of reclaiming your true Self.

As to your believe in one God, I can only say for now, give it a rest. Because the Gods constitute a type, just as humanity is a type among other types. There are Gods whose nature is spiritual, while others are beyond all appearances... and there are those that mankind makes in its own image.

[Succinct]

i am in the process of publishing a new book entitled:

from war to peace: the secret history of religious relations between knyame and quansah (accra: 2008 )

[Kwame Nyame 64]

Hello knyame64, I can understand your surprise and shock at the way I responded to your question. I am sure you must have asked yourself several times before, why our rights as a people are neither recognized nor respected. Why do you think we are called black and classified by the color of our skin, when nature doesn't know any color lines? Now since your question about karma was vague, I had no choice but to tailor my answer to our peculiar situation.

Even though the world today calls us black, we are ebonite or the ebane people. You may consider that to be just names, but it is not. Those who insist on classifying us by the color of our skin have a hidden agenda, and it is up to us to fight it and reclaim our true Self and rightful place in the world. Because as Sorel, the father of communism and fascism quotes Clemenceau in his Reflections On Violence, and I quote:

"there is no better means, 'he said' than the perpetual concessions for making the opposite party ask for more. Every man or every power, whose action consists solely in surrender, can only finish in self-annihiliation. Everything that lives resists; that which does not resist allows itself to be cut up piecemeal."


While it is true that karma or fate is the bond between all existing things, it is also equally true that that alone is not enough to explain our predicament. The question then comes down to whether or not you are brave enough to stand up to the challenge of reclaiming your true Self.

As to your believe in one God, I can only say for now, give it a rest. Because the Gods constitute a type, just as humanity is a type among other types. There are Gods whose nature is spiritual, while others are beyond all appearances... and there are those that mankind makes in its own image.

Hi Quansah,
When it come to our true self or identity,l think any classification or identification based on physical appearance is shallow.
Why do l say so?
lts for the simple reason that our physical body is just a shell.We are more than flesh.
Lets say you visit a battlefield long after the war and long after the vultures have had their feast.Tell me,would you be able to separate the general from the private;the coward from the brave;the black from the white?
To identify yourself(your true self) to the texture of your hair or the colour of your skin is short changing yourself.
Soul(your real self)is colourless,raceless,deathless and timeless.
Soul,in its journey through life will change lts shell as many times as lts karma demands.ln the end,Soul attains purification and ready to fully serve God in the administration of the universes.
You can choose eg to return to earth as a Saviour to uplift a particular race,age or group.You can choose to become an angel serving God in lts many mansions(universes).
Karma is simply cause and effect.A blackman will not fall faster or harder than a whiteman when both fall out of a plane.
Anyone who takes the trouble to delve into pastlives will know that as Soul,he/she/it has lived before.

There are times in the history of earth when a particular skin colour or race is celebrated and another looked down upon.
Any historian will tell you the various races of the earth planet black(Africa),white(Europe),yellow(China) and Red(American lndians) has ruled before.
We know of the great civilizations of the mayas,moors,egyptians,mogolians,etc,etc.
The rule of the white race may be coming to an end.The rise of China suggests the yellow race may be prime candidate for ruling our planets.
The black race probably can beat them to it if African leaders become visionary and use the enormous human and natural resource wisely.

Now back to more serious matters.Truth,l believe is beyond race.Any faith,religion or philosophy strictly based on skin colour won't endure.
Another point worth mentioning here is the WE,WE,WE,WE,WE,THEY<THEY<THEY
We what? Never has the realization of God or anything worthwhile come about with a group.
Look closely at Saviours,Saints,lnventors,philosophers and movers and shakers of our world.lts always an individual or personal effort and triumph.

l will leave out the God bit,like you said until you pick it up.
l am young and do not know much about life and our world.But l will NEVER put myself in a box (black,red pink or white) and look at life through such taintness.
Universal truth stands.lt needs no props,pink,green yellow or white.

Sorry if the post is jumbled.l just wrote without a great deal of thinking.l put it down as it came.Try and cut out the rubbish.l am sure theres a thing or two in there that makes a bit of sense
Kwame Nyame
More later.